An interview with Helen Dehner

This week we get a glimpse of Helen Dehner's beautiful life and writing.

Tell me a little about you, what you do for a living, your educational background, your family (and pets), the place where you live.

Whew!  Here we go!  I am the oldest of three daughters, born in 1941 a few months before Pearl Harbor.  I was raised in Caseyville, Illinois ~ just across the river from St. Louis, Missouri.  Caseyville was, and still is, very small.  A town where everyone knows your name, your story, your business.  In many ways my childhood was idyllic.  Great friends, Girl Scouts, band and choir.  I was introduced to the flute when I was nine, performed in a small vocal group during my teens.  I also directed the Junior Choir in our small church.  During hot, humid summers I spent hours with my maternal grandparents .. helping with farm chores.  Complaining (silently) as I herded cows to pasture, slopped the pigs, fed hay to  horses, weeded, harvested corn, tomatoes, peas, potatoes, etc.  My father died the summer I turned sixteen.  It was sudden, tragic and life-altering. My mother remarried five years later to an amazing man twenty-five years her senior.  Fred lived to the ripe old age of ninety-seven.  He was a great husband and stepfather.     

After graduating from high school I enrolled in a private two year college all set to  become an elementary school teacher.  Well, you know what they say about best laid plans ~ the degree was put on hold when I married my high school sweetheart.  Three sons followed  ~ in rapid succession.  My husband continued his education, graduating from medical school the summer our boys turned 4, 5, and 6.  Our  daughter was born the following year.  

Sadly, after twenty-two years our marriage ended.  Happily, we have remained close ~ enjoying holidays and special events as a blended family ~ his wife, their two daughters, our four children and two grandchildren. By this time we had all migrated to Minneapolis.  I returned to school after the divorce and within two years accepted a position in a large travel agency.  I remained with the agency  for the next eighteen years!  During those years I traveled the world, literally.  I was fortunate to have had so many wonderful travel adventures.

I have lived in seven States:  Illinois, Missouri, Maryland, Minnesota, Georgia, Florida and Oregon.  Today I call Bend, Oregon home.  Bend is in Central Oregon on the eastern side of the Cascade Mountain Range. Bend’s climate is considered high desert, with lots of sun, scant rain, breath-taking scenery and four seasons – none of them extreme.  We have beautiful snow covered mountains year round, fresh air in abundance, the best water in the world, and every outdoor sport imaginable.  A paradise! 

 What got you started with writing poetry?

I wrote a bit growing up and during high school/college.  I began writing in earnest in 2002 ~ the year I brought my mother to live with me.  She had Alzheimer’s disease and Lewy Body dementia (mid-stage) ~ writing helped to balance me.  I was privileged to care for my mother the last five years of her life.  Years filled with joy, sadness, humor, frustration, love and fear ~ could there be any greater inspiration?  I continued writing after her death in 2007 and in 2008 discovered the wonderful world of blogging … the rest is history.    

I love looking at the photos on your blog from the places you’ve been to. Have you ever been to a literary destination? If not, is there a specific one you’d like to visit? 

During many trips to England I’ve visited the Dickens Museum, Jane Austen’s home in Hampshire, Shakespeare’s home in Stratford-on-Avon, Wordsworth’s home in the Lake District and the Brontë home in Yorkshire.  I thoroughly enjoy poking about in libraries, old churches and museums, I can get lost for hours on end.  Our family spent countless weekends at the Smithsonian during the two years we lived just outside Washington DC.  

 I would love to visit Ernest Hemingway’s home in Key West, Thomas Wolfe’s home in Asheville, Emily Dickinson’s home in Amherst.      

Do you collect souvenirs from the places you visit? What are they?

I have carted too many souvenirs home over the years ~ coasters, calendars, books, small paintings, candles, CDs, DVDs ~ most of them gifts for friends and family.  I do have a brass candlestick holder I found in a dusty, dark antique shop in London that I cherish. 

Being a woman who enjoys traveling, you’re probably familiar with Benjamin Franklin’s quote: ‘Fish and visitors smell after three days.” (Believe me, we use it a lot here, I had no idea it was his until I searched the Internet for the origins of the saying to include in this interview!) Which three living or dead poets/writers would you like to risk and have over for longer than 3 days? 

In all candor, I think of myself as a musician who dabbles in poetry.  Leonard Cohen, Jim Morrison and Joni Mitchell are three poet/song writers I seriously admire.  Three days, three months, three years ~ I could never get enough of them.  Joni Mitchell’s lyrics are incredibly poetical, her voice is magic, she has done it all ~ folk, jazz, pop!  Jim Morrison was a complicated genius, so talented ~ gone too soon.  I have a serious crush on Leonard Cohen who is not much older than me, unattached (as far as I know) and sexier than any man I can think of!!  I melt when I listen to his music, period!  Are you reading this, Leonard?  

Do you follow any writing ritual?

No rituals.  I use a PC in my loft / office.  I keep a notebook on the table next to my bed as I sometimes ‘dream’ poems.  I love responding to all sorts of challenges ~ art, form, photography, topic.  I need peace and quiet when I write, any time of the day will do.  I also  ‘compose’ poems during three mile daily walks .. get home as fast as possible and make a mad dash for the computer!    

Do you keep a traveling record?

I do not journal during trips.  Photos tell the stories, keep memories alive, inspire me and my writing.  

Is there a poem you wrote you would like more people to have read? 

I wrote these poems during the last two years of my Mother’s life ….  

:: I’m Still Here  

Though you can’t remember

Without cues from the past

Though you can’t recall

Dreams and plans for life

Though you live in your own world

Within a shrinking border

I’m still here to guide you through, I’m still here.

Loved ones still remember

All the magic that you cast

Sharing strength and wisdom

With everyone you touched

Though you live in your own world

Within a shrinking border

I’m still here to guide you through, I’m still here.

The key to life is memories

Long ago, real and imagined

A smile on your face the light in your eyes

Remind me it’s not time for our goodbyes

Though you live in your own world

Within a shrinking border

I‘m still here to guide you through, I’m still here.

 :: The Journey to Dinner

I watch 

as their day comes to a close

the continuous shuffling of bodies and souls

some of them walking unaided

some of them walking assisted

some of them being pushed in chairs

familiar journey to a room

most of them can't recall from day to day

I wonder 

will he or she be there the next time I visit

 I've grown so fond of them all

If you could not express your feelings & thoughts through the medium of poetry, what other medium would you choose?

Music, music, music. I would put more energy into singing and playing that flute of mine! Actually, Bend has a ‘senior citizen’ orchestra and choral group.  I still have time!

Is there a topic you still haven’t covered in a poem and would like to try in the near future?

I’ve covered death, war, love, passion, sadness, euphoria, politics, family, anger, humor ~ I think the only topic left is religion ~ which I won’t do!  Smiles.

I’m a disaster at rhyming, I have given up trying it, definitely not my thing. I’ve left you a comment once, saying how much I liked your rhyming because it’s simple and carries a playful tone (to me). Do you ever struggle with writing? Is there something you feel like you can’t write? I mean, form poetry, poems about war, etc?

You know Kenia, my poems gravitate between goofiness and gravitas. I enjoy rhyme, I also enjoy free form. I don’t have a style, nothing is predictable about my poetry. I struggle with sonnets and octaves and pantoums ~ but I’m willing to try anything once!

Will you please leave us a piece of personal inspiration, a quote, song or poem you always feel good about?

At the bottom of Poetry Matters is a quote from Gail Godwin that has inspired me for ages: 

“There are two kinds of people. One kind, you can just tell by looking at them at what point they congealed into their final selves. It might be a very nice self, but you know you can expect no more surprises from it. Whereas, the other kind keep moving, changing.  They are fluid. They keep moving forward and making new trysts with life, and the motion of it keeps them young. In my opinion, they are the only people who are still alive. You must be constantly on your guard against congealing.” 

Thank you again Helen, for your time and kindness. It was really great to talk to you. 

An interview with Grapeling

After flunking out of Mechanical Engineering, he studied Rhetoric at UC Berkeley, taking mandatory classes on The Rhetoric of Poetry for 2 semesters with “a Professor who wore robes to class, and might easily have been a court jester in the Middle Ages, or taught at Hogwarts”, he says.  

Allow me to introduce you to Michael, known among us as Grapeling, he lives in Laguna Beach with his girlfriend and sons, and he kindly agreed to answer a few questions for The Imaginary Garden with Real Toads.

(Photo taken by Patricia O'Driscoll)

Kenia Cris: The first post ever made to your blog is a Buddha’s quote I particularly like very much: “The problem is you think you have time.” What is it you wish you had more time for?

Michael: Ahh. Yes. I had something very smart thought up in response to your question, then forgot to write it down. Damnable conceptual art habits are difficult to shake. There’s a saying - youth is wasted on the young. And a line from the Pink Floyd song, Time - "one day you find ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun." 

So it’s not so much I wish I had more time for anything… but that… time is the only currency that truly matters. Money is a derivative of time. Some might say time is fungible, but I don’t believe so. ‘Time is money’ is a metaphor, but it’s not a truth. It can’t be traded for more time. We look everywhere for symmetry - in faces, in dualities - left/right, up/down, back/front. We see two faces on every coin. But time uniquely is not symmetrical. It goes only … forward, science fiction notwithstanding. The problem is, you think you have time. But you don’t. Not to be trite or contrarian, but time has you.

KC: I’m borrowing some of Isaac Asimov’s words to make this a better second question: “I don’t like anything that’s got to be. I want to know why.” I want to know why you seem to often describe yourself as an uninteresting person/poet.

Michael: I Am Robot. Foundation and the trilogy are one of my favorite reads from teen-hood.

I suppose I’m more interested in other people. I deflect. Likely a result of being spotlighted when very young, of being told I had ‘potential’. A damning word, to me. I spent puberty and my adult life attempting to blend in, to be accepted, to not stand out. Perhaps it’s false modesty. Perhaps it’s a cry for attention, not meant to be taken literally, but as a challenge. Maybe it’s a way of setting low expectations, so that I need not excel. Or that I can over-deliver, having under-promised.  Or, perhaps, I’m just not that interesting. Occam’s Razor… (he smiles)

I was going to write a catalog of all the poets I admire but didn’t want to leave anyone out. Suffice to say, I find my words inadequate to convey my appreciation for what I read daily, and then find my own offerings pale, or pedantic, or trite. Or worse - boring, unreadable. But still I continue. Sometimes a phrase catches me, and I have no choice but to pen it. But I’ve been told I’m my own worst critic.

KC: Do you have a particular place in the house to write in? Do you ever handwrite your poems before typing them? 

Michael: On my laptop. At my prior apartment, at my dining room table. Now, on the couch. Never hand write. My scrawl compares unfavorably to an arthritic chicken. I can’t even read it sometimes, moments after having “written”. It’s atrocious. I shoulda been a doctor.

Laguna Beach, January 2014

KC: Maybe it’s because I can barely count (because I hate Mathematics and it hates me back), I noticed you’ve written quite a number of Fibonacci poems. Is your job connected with numbers?

Michael: Yes. Finance. Also, Hedgewitch posted a challenge in the garden last year the same week as one at dVerse, and I got infected with Fib fever. It’s terminal, I’m afraid.

KC: How much of your poetry is autobiographical and how much is fiction?

Michael: It’s factional. So, there’s poetic license, right? As it turns out, I believe that since language is a construct, and has rules and accepted conventions, and, that there are hundreds of languages, that the human conceit that ‘thought’ can be ‘true’ is also a derivative. In this case, a derivative of perceived reality, which itself is a derivative of actual reality. So language is a 2nd derivative of reality. Then it gets edited or censored to suit some ill- or well-conceived desires. Consequently anything I write, you write, any of us write, is maybe a 3rd or 4th generation approximation of ‘truth’. Ever see a photocopy of a copy of a copy of a copy? How the lines blur, and faces blotch to unrecognizable? That’s my view of writing, and especially, of poetry, compared to ‘life’ as it were. So is it autobiographical? Certainly… inasmuch as any simulacrum of a pseudonym can be. But I’m being obtuse. Some is, some is fictionalized but has ‘true’ roots, and some is flat out fabricated.

KC: Which dead poet would you like to have been friends with and why?

Michael: Wouldn’t that mean I’m also dead?

Rumi? Neruda. Rilke. Except I don’t think they’d have been friends with me. They understood subterfuge and eschewed pomposity. They were genuine, authentic, inquisitive. They gave us as close to 1st order approximations of reality as language can get. Poetry is that razor that by subverting convention and the orders of language enables us to see the mechanism, as it were, or rather, unmask the curtains that hide the fires that stoke us.

The longing in your poetry, for instance - its rawness, clarity, the unflinching and candid reveal - that is genuine. Glad you’re alive and I get to know you, if a bit, though. (he smiles) 

KC: If you could not express your feelings & thoughts through the medium of poetry, what other medium would you choose?

Michael: I think silence is an excellent medium.

(he smiles)

Music? No, that’s poetry integrated with sound, sometimes substituted for by sound. Painting? I have several friends who are artists. Brilliant stuff. I wish I had their talent. Engineering. I’d like to be able to build stuff. My younger son has a desire to build. I encourage it assiduously.

Michael at the age of 10

KC: Is there an unread poem in your blog you wished more people would have put eyes on? 

Michael: Hm. Night is now fell? I dunno. Grit, Glossed?

KC: You said in another interview you grew up reading lots of science fiction because your mother and uncles did. Does your choice of reading today have any influence on your children’s choice? Do they read poetry because you write it? 

Michael: Laughing. No. I hardly read anymore, after having been a sponge as a child, and am continually astonished and subdued at how erudite Hedgewitch, Brendan, Kerry, ManicDDaily, Jane Hewitt, and others are in their commentary, and at the breadth and depth of talent both in the garden and other sites I frequent. I have tomes of Neruda, Rilke, Oliver, Rumi, Hafiz in a box waiting for me to unpack, having told myself I need to read or reread them. I learn of new (old) poets all the time, often in the commentary of other poets (nodding towards Hedgewitch and Brendan). Sometimes I wonder if I fear reading the best poets because it would reveal me as the hack I actually am. So ignorance is bliss.

My boys like what they like. I’ve tried to foist Sherlock Holmes without success. But they like the John Carter of Mars series (despite the horrific movie). My younger son reads voraciously, including Discover and Popular Science and Nat Geo magazines as well as lots of fiction. My elder son reads on his Kindle, recently Game of Thrones I believe. They’ve been cool to Heinlein, Asimov, Clarke, Robinson, Herbert, Harrison, et al, but that’s OK. So long as they read something... They don’t read poetry, and certainly not mine. Maybe I’ll let them know that I write, someday. (he smiles)

KC: You present the reader with questions in many of your poems (which always reminds me of Neruda’s The book of questions), some are rhetorical, some are meant for them, some are meant for yourself. So, to finish this interview, what I ask of you is that, other than a piece of advice, you leave us a question.

Michael: I’ll leave it to a much better writer and human than me - Mary Oliver, since I pretty much cribbed the ‘ask a question’ format from her anyways - in her astonishing poem, The Summer Day: 

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do

with your one wild and precious life?”

KC: Thank you for your time and attention Michael. It was a pleasure to talk to you. 

You're all invited to answer Michael's/Mary Oliver's question. 

There are 34 pages (today) on Grapeling’s blog, I suggest you to go and discover the man written on the pages before the first poem you’ve read there. Here are my personal 10 favorite poems of his, pick a number and enjoy it. 

1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10.

Adventures in Other Mindedness: an interview with Amy Barlow Liberatore

Poet, Activist, and new Real Toad member, Amy Barlow Liberatore

Greetings Garden Dwellers!
I am proud to introduce you to our newest Real Toad's member, Amy Barlow Liberatore...the wit and grit behind Sharp Little Pencil .  I had the opportunity to talk with Amy via G-chat this week.   After our conversation, I tried to write a fitting introduction for this interview, then I realized...Amy needs no introduction at all.  

Much like her poems:  she speaks for herself better than anyone else ever could.   If you have not read her work, do yourself a favor and head straight over to her blog.  You will not be sorry. So, from the G-chat transcripts, I conjure forth a conversation with Amy!

Izy: First round is on me, what are you having?  

Amy: A big cup of decaf coffee.  Mmmm!  And a chocolate chip muffin.

Izy: Your blog Sharp Little Pencil has a tag line--Poetry of lost years, wild times, mental variety, faith, and lots of jazz, could you describe why you chose “sharp little pencil” and that particular tag line for your poetry blog?  

Amy: People told me (in the years before bipolar meds) that I had a “sharp” tongue and wit.  I still do, but I’m more diplomatic now.  “Little” because in my jazz career, I was “The Little Girl With The Big Voice,” and older guys called me “Little Sister.”  And “Pencil” is mightier than pen or the laptop, for my money.

Izy: Currently you live in Madison, Wisconsin:  how long have you lived there?

Amy:  About two years.  We moved here from Attica, NY, when my husband, Lex, was called to minister at a local United Church of Christ. Since I cannot work outside the home due to mental disorders, I am able to devote all my time to "care and feeding of pastor," plus blogging and taking care of home life. This city is a dream, like a small borough.  If you've ever been to Ithaca, NY, you'd know this.

Izy:  I have been through Madison on my way to Chicago a few times, and have always meant to get off I94 to delve into that town....as a Minnesotan, I must state that I hold no grudge with you, Ms. Wisconsinite   Did you hear, MN passed the freedom to marry law today! Marriage rights for all!

Amy:  Man, I worked so hard on that as an ally in New York State, and they passed it two weeks after I moved here.  Just give us time, and CONGRATS to Minnesota!!!!!  Glory, hallelujah for all!!!

Izy:  Wisconsin soon, no?

Amy:  Wisconsin, if only we can step over Scott Walker's multi-million-dollar butt and get people more active.  This state is a bit different for me - Madison is a hotbed of liberalism... NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, of which I am a proud member, was started around a kitchen table with moms talking about their kids.  Wisconsin had the first kindergarten, and public education is so important, but Walker is all for vouchers, which would mean the end of public education as we know it.

Amy and her husband, Lex, renewing their vows.

Izy:  They are lucky to have you in state:)   I wanted to ask you a bit about your activism, as it seems to be such a giant part of who you are.

Care to comment further on that?

Amy:  It's everything.  I was raised by a civil-rights mom, knew what "gay" was when I was five, and our house was sometimes filled with musicians... all shades of brown from beige (me) to cocoa; gays and lesbians; all nationalities.  And this was in the lily-white suburbs, so my family had quite the reputation because of my mother's music career (jazz in clubs).

Also, I worked hard on Smoke-Free New York, and that paid off big time...

even though I lost my music career to secondhand smoke, at least I could help out a bunch of bartenders, waitstaff, and musicians keep their health longer.

My club days were long over by the time I started the campaign.  It's not really activism if it's done to help yourself on a personal level.  Always to help others.

Izy: How long have you been writing poetry?  What was it like to realize you wanted to write poems?  

Amy: It started with writing jazz songs years ago; I’ve since added praise music to my repertoire, and that’s very structured, very rhythmic.  I wrote a spontaneous rant during a 2005 trip to California (about the gentrification of Venice Beach) and my friend said, “Amy, you’re a free-verse poet!”  And so it began.  The first poem I intentionally wrote was about my father molesting me, called “Daddy’s Little Girl.”  It helped with the healing.

Izy:  So, let's speak a little to your jazz career.  How long did you perform and why did you stop >aside from the secondhand smoke,did it cause illness, etc

Amy:  I first sang in front of adults around age 5, at one of Mom's "Singin' and Sippin' Parties."  I knew all my life I wanted to be a singer and/or writer.  My first gig was playing piano for myself and singing at an outdoor cafe, it was all Billie Holiday, etc.

Then a friend called me to sub for his singer, who was sick with the flu.  I was 17, er, I mean they thought I was 18.

Piano bars and all after that.  All standards, meaning Gershwin, Rodgers and Hart, all the "Great American Songbook."  Later, I started writing songs as well - some cabaret-funny, some just romantic.

I moved to LA at 19 because my cousin, Gregg Laughlin, was manager of a legendary place, The Great American Food & Beverage Company in Sta. Monica... Later, I met Rickie Lee Jones at a "hoot night" at the Troubador in LA; she wasn't famous yet.  I'd play piano for free and sing backup for her.  In fact, I sang backup for her "big night" when Warner Bros. was deciding if they'd sign her.  I was very lucky, right place, right time, and willing, always, to support other musicians.

Then I got into drugs, yeeach, waste of my time.  Even though I remember some sessions quite vividly and with fondness, most of it was just... you know.

Let's put it this way: Tequila plus Quaaludes plus Hopscotch is not a good equation!! I still have a lump on my ankle as a souvenir!

 Went back east, moved to NYC, played loads of places:  Caroline's Comedy Club (opened for PeeWee Herman, Jay Leno, Jerry Seinfeld, Elayne Boozler, Sandra Bernhardt, a lot of greats before anyone knew them.)

Also did two seasons as Artist-in-Residence at the Princess Hotel in Bermuda, until I was so pregnant with Riley I couldn't breathe behind the piano.  Came back, had Riley, went back to gigging...

Then to Puerto Rico, where my marriage to Riley's dad broke up... soon after, lost my career to the smoke, my dad to a heart attack, and my mom to too many years of alcoholism and smoking.  All in about a year.

Izy:  That is a lot to happen in so little time.  part of what I admire about your work is your willingness to confront truth and shine a light on all parts of your life.  That sort of courage is a rare gift.  Is this something you've had to work towards?

Amy:  Yes.  I was unusually shy as a kid (except when someone asked me to sing, and I was on solid ground then).  I flinched at flash bulbs, couldn't swallow pills, ate a limited number of foods, was very small for my age.  It wasn't until I broke out in my 20s that I mastered "a mask," a sort of manic state when I was in public... all fun, all jokes, wicked sense of humor further honed by hanging with so many gay men...

It wasn't until I was 40 that I discovered I, like one of my sisters, had been sexually molested by my father when I was a very little girl.  Started having flashbacks when Riley was around three, went to a therapist, and figured a lot of things out.  Then...

it wasn't until I was 50 that the bipolar diagnosis came in.  I prefer the term "manic depression," because "bipolar" sounds like you live half the year with Santa Claus.

Izy: santa or bears, right?

Amy:  Yeah, or those dudes at the South Pole who are scientists but formed a rock band!!

Izy:  That is the best possible association!

Amy:  You bet, hee hee. It's all about being open to possibility.

Amy and her "IT" Girl, Riley.

Izy: Is Riley is your only child?

Amy:  Well, the only one who lived.  I had a miscarriage and at one point, a pregnancy that was doomed from the start.  Even though I was on the Pill and he was using protection, I still got pregnant.  I ended up having an abortion.  Again...I speak of these things to show that we need to stop building up stigmas around uncomfortable subjects.  Anyway...

Riley is IT.  She is brilliant, sassy, a SoCal girl now, an artist, gender queer (wrote about that the other day) and one hell of a drummer, too.  And so nice...

She's my all in all.

Izy:  Your confession style is unique and bold.  What is your writing process like?

 Amy: My writing has a PROCESS? Like get a cup of coffee, go over prompts... I write to prompts often as a way of keeping myself on my toes...Pick up my trusty Ticonderoga #2 pencil and some journal or other and then close my eyes and meditate for a bit.  Then, the words tumble forth or they don't.  I do best...on days when I am either manic or severely depressed.  

Writing in the depressed state has produced some of my best poems.  It's part of the interesting circumstance of being mentally ill, or "other-minded."  You see things differently from others.  You notice the crack in the ceiling, you wonder about why things turned out as they did for you, for other people.  You question war, injustice.  I think most social activists have some sort of "other-mindedness," and in fact, that's why many of us are dismissed as crackpots.  Hey, you think firing the first strike on a country with no defenses like Iraq is SANE?  I rest my case.  We create beauty and questions for which there is no easy answer.

Izy: Scenario: there has been an unlabeled tin can in your cupboards for years, do you open it?  

Amy: Are you kidding?  Do you know what it will smell like?  I won’t even open it for the sake of recycling!  It could be Pandora’s can of sardines or (yeeach) peas!!

Izy: Favorite curse word?  

Amy: “Shit.”  Satisfying ssssssssssssh prologue, crisp ending!  Often said with two syllables:  “Sheeeee-it!”

Izy: Matinee or Late show?  

Amy: Matinee, because Lex keeps early hours and I won’t go without him.

Izy: An alien lands on earth and asks you “what is poetry?”  Which poem of yours would you  share as an answer (you can only pick one)?

Amy: We Interrupt Your Regularly Scheduled Programming. We Interrupt Your Regularly Scheduled Programming . I’d choose this, even though it’s not a poetic form, because I’d want aliens to understand exactly what kind of planet they’ve encountered, as well as something about our media and general methods of communication as a species.

Izy: Scenario:  you are shocked to find your photo all over the news tomorrow morning...what is the shocking headline?

Amy: “Poet Arrested For Melting All of Ted Nugent’s Assault Rifles”

Izy: What are three things you never write about?

Amy: My sisters by name, because they have different views from mine about practically everything.  Dirty poetry for the sake of being shocking.  And any flowery verse.

Izy: Is there anything else you haven't said or spoken to that you want to mention?

Amy:  I owe a great debt to so many poets on the Web.  When I was living inside a loaf of Wonder Bread in Attica, the blogs were my salvation.  I've received excellent advice and critiques from poets all over the world.  When I am feeling down or isolated, there is an outlet... not only reading and commenting on other poets, but getting inspiration to write my own.  I've created a lot of trouble for myself by telling my truth, and I know Grandma Blanche is looking over my shoulder (she had manic depression, too) and saying, "If you stop telling your truth, I'm not going to rest easy."  I hope that, when I write about hot-button issues, someone out there might say, "Oh, I'm not the only one."

TOADS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True Originals Apply to No One: an interview

Greetings Garden Dwellers!

This week I continue to explore the world of publishing.  Some of those in our midst have struck out to put their work into a printed product: a bound and decorated object called “books”, and I am here to share those experiences with you all. 

Today I present a very special brain snack:  an interview with not one but three Toads whose latest book is so new, the ink has barely dried!  Our very own Fireblossom, Mama Zen, and Hedgewitch have published a book of poems, and they were kind enough to answer some of my questions about the publishing process.  Scroll downward to learn how they came together, let Fireblossom do what she does best (formatting?), and ended up with a book of their own..... 

Izy:  The three of you have very separate styles, what drove your decision to collaborate and conjure forth a book?

FB:  Kelli goosed me about getting something together to try to get it published, and I had the idea of doing something together. It means more to me because we are all in it, than a solo effort would have. 

HW: First of all, the credit for this project really should go to Shay and Kelli, as being published comes on my list of enthusiasms somewhere between learning how to do sculptures from clothes-dryer lint and being nibbled to death by ducks. As far as why do this together, other than  being online friends, for me, it was primarily that we just seem to understand and relate to each other's poetry on a real and primal level. Neither Kelli nor Shay has ever gotten any of my poems wrong--and their poetry always seems to strike a chord in me that just instinctually hits me where I live (not to mention, makes me say "I wish I'd written that')

MZ: Honestly, it just kind of occurred to me one day that we could.  And, it sounded like fun.

Shay Caroline (a.k.a. Fireblossom)

Izy:  Tell me a bit about what it was like to collaborate with other poets?  How did you arrive at a cohesive theme, tone, etc.?

FB: It was easy because we each have our own separate sections. I was the one to bang out the manuscript, so I chose my own poems, Kelli asked me to help with choosing hers, and Joy chose her own and sent me the doc by email. Then we all had some typos and what-have-you to clean up, and there it was. It was Joy's idea to do the cascade poems at the end.

HW:  Shay was the driving force behind this project as far as my motivation was concerned, and she kept us between the lines by making it very simple and clear-cut: we each were going to put so many poems in the collection, and we had so many days to assemble them for her to transcribe. She helped me out with a list of her favorites of mine, and I mentioned some of my favorites of hers, but our final choices were personal. She also really made this happen by having a stringent deadline. If I'd had more time to dither, my part probably would have taken years to get done, if ever.

MZ: The book is definitely a collaboration, but it's presented as three distinct voices.  We each had our own section to play with.  That format lent itself to ease of design and pretty much eliminated the need for any hair pulling. 

Izy:  Did you each get input on what the other was including?  Did you help revise and improve each other's work?

FB: No one revised anyone else's work. I think that's a boundary none of us would presume to cross. However, there *was* input about which poems to include. I helped Kelli choose her poems, Joy made some suggestions for me, including "Mission" and "House Of Wax", and I urged Joy to include "Hedgerider's Lament."

MZ: Hmmm . . . let me just sit for a moment and imagine myself trying to revise one of Hedge's poems . . . not gonna happen! On the other hand, without Shay, I would still be thumbing through my poems and trying to make selections.

Izy:  The title is (I am assuming) your three birth signs....what is the significance of the title in relation to the poems?  

FB:  Yes, our sun signs. Kelli came up with that. I think our signs show in our writing. 

HW: While I'm not a foamy, New Age-y devotee of astrology, I have found it a useful and interesting way of looking at personalities over the years, and I do think there is some relationship between our signs and our styles--in my  case, I know I draw on the historical poets and on traditional forms a lot more, as well as being drawn to the dark side of things. (Edgar Allen Poe was a Capricorn, after all.)

MZ: The title seemed to fit the theme of three views and three voices.

Izy: How did you decide on the order of the poems, the layout and design?  Did one of you take this on or was it a group effort?

FB: Blame me for that, entirely. It was partly just a matter of what arrangement would fit the most poems in, in a pleasing way. Also, I tried not to put poems together that didn't mesh well together. Joy did give me her design for the three sections her poems are divided into, and I chose the sequence within each section.  I paid particular attention to the first and last poem for each poet. 

HW:  Shay, along with doing all the other hard work, made the final decisions on things, but we each made our own selections. Being the Capricorn in the group, I did choose to group my part of the book into three themed sections, and to do it I used three of my blog tags, which is how I associate my poems in my head. I had a section called Witchlight (love poems) one called Casting the Runes, (for my poems about myth and so forth), and finally a group of assorted form poems I tagged Dancing Doll. We also discussed including poems of different  lengths--short medium and long--and breaking up the book that way as well for variety, so you'll find you aren't reading page after page of long poems all lumped together.

MZ: Shay gets all the credit for anything related to manuscript design.  The woman is a machine!

Joy Ann Jones( a.k.a Hedgewitch)

Izy:  What have initial reactions been to the book, and now that the book is out there, what are your plans to promote the work?  Are you going to do readings, etc. I know a guy who sells tamales from the trunk of his car at night clubs.  He makes a killing and may be looking to get into the book selling biz.....?

FB: I think it may be too soon for reactions, but people have certainly been very positive about the fact that there *is* a book. Marian at ALL CAPS promoted us on Twitter and Facebook and at Real Toads. All of us have promoted the book on our blogs. I do readings very occasionally, and if I do one, I'll take some copies along. 

HW:  I'll do readings when I am personally asked by Sean Bean, Viggo Mortenson or President Obama. But I could use a good tamale.

MZ: So far, people have been really positive and excited for us. 

Izy: You are published under the ALL CAPS imprint, a collective which helps authors self publish their work, why did you make the decision to self-publish?  Shay, you've previously published, how did you find this experience to work in contrast to working with a conventional poetry press?

FB: Fuck a bunch of leaving it to editors who want what they want for any of a million reasons. Our work is strong, it deserves to see print and be read, and this is how it got done. I'm pleased as can be with the whole thing. My girl Emily Dickinson had her poetry maimed by editors for decades; men who thought they knew how to improve the little lady's work. Please. Finally, her work is available as she intended it, and it's so much stronger that way. I took a lesson from that. 

When I was submitting to magazines and all of that, one had to go through these gatekeepers, each with their own biases and needs and egos. I think my writing is as good as anyone's. Anyone's. I don't need someone to stamp their approval on it, or change it or tell me how I ought to have done it. My feeling is that Kelli and Joy are true originals and they need apply to no one. Here is our work. It's fucking fantastic. It needs to be out there and available. Personally, I couldn't care less about compiling some list of publications or bonafides. The work is the thing.

MZ: Self-publishing has become a viable option, particularly for poets.  We have a strong, vibrant community, we support each other; why shouldn't we work together to get our work out there?

Izy:  What were some of the obstacles you faced?

FB: Oy! Figuring out how to make the book look nice, get the poems to fit nicely where i wanted them, and to navigate all the steps necessary to create the finished book. It wasn't easy. There were times when I was fit to be tied, trying to figure it all out, but Marian had a knack of always having the wise word when I needed it, and the book got made. I'm very proud of it and very proud of *us*. 

HW: The hardest part for me was picking between my poem children--rejecting some and elevating others as a mother should never have to do, and I only hope they forgive me for playing favorites. 

MZ: Talking Shay off the ledge when the formatting wasn't going well?  I'm kidding, but Shay really was the point woman on the grunt work.  I think that she did a tremendous job, and I can't thank her enough.

Kelli Simpson (a.k.a. Mama Zen)

Izy:  What were some of the rewards of the writing/ publishing process?

FB: To me, writing something worthwhile is its own reward, but the rewards of this book, for me, have been to see each of our sets of poems all in one place, looking good, something that can be held in the hands and enjoyed and kept and shared. That's just such a kick.

I used to have all these unwieldy bookmarks on my computer for both of my co-authors' poems that I liked the best, but now they are all together. I love that. And mine too! 

For differing reasons, it has seemed unlikely that any of the three of us would ever be sitting here with a book of our poetry in our hands. It just thrills me silly that now that's been made real, against some daunting odds. All of us quit writing for years at a time. It would be criminal if Kelli and Joy had remained silent. I think that the opportunities of blogging and self-publishing were critical to all three of us picking up our pens again.

HW: The biggest reward for me is knowing we've accomplished something tangible, being able to hold a real book in one's hand and say--hey, my poetry is in here. That, and  hearing all the kind words, encouragement and support from others, especially our fellow poets.

MZ:  The writing is its own reward.  Always.  Still, holding a book of your work in your hands is an undeniable thrill.

Izy:  How long did it take you to put the work together?

FB: It happened pretty fast.

HW: You mean, besides a lifetime of agonizing or ecstatic experiences distilled into verbal expression through long soul-searching and peripatetic inspiration in the wee hours of insomniac months and years? 

Actually, about 24 hours, because I was late to the party and the last one to get organized, so I raced through my blog on the fly, cutting and pasting like a fiend. This was a good thing , as I said earlier, or  I would probably have spent months agonizing, re-writing and over-editing everything. 

MZ:  It didn't take long at all!

Izy:  Where can I get my hands on a copy?

FB:  Amazon.com!

MZ: We're on Amazon.  And, I have a couple of copies sitting here on my desk.  Call me; I'll hook you up!


Get your mitts on your own copy of Gemini/Scorprio/Capricorn  here